Interview with Thomas Wurm about how alternative mental health modalities heal trauma in the mind, body, and soul.
Thomas Wurm spent fifteen years in wildland fire with the U.S. Forest Service. He is the founder of Mountain Mind Tricks and became realigned as an entrepreneur, author, and alternative mental health practitioner after his healing crisis in 2015. Now, he is the leading voice in the wildland fire community in alternative mental health.
Mountain Mind Tricks delivers Mental and Emotional Release® to wildland firefighters struggling with mental health. The mission is to empower wildland firefighters to become calm within their storm on the line and at home. The company is a collective of ex-wildland firefighters who serve the fire community as integrative mental health practitioners. Mountain Mind Tricks focuses on alternative healing, inspiring content creation, and healing retreats.
The clients of Mountain Mind Tricks experience deep healing beyond anything traditional therapy can provide because of the focus on the mind, body, and spirit.
Dive deeper into alternative mental health with one of the books Thomas has published. In Six Minutes for Excellence, Thomas gives you the tools to create excellence. In Awakened by Heart-Fire, he guides you in connecting with your source of light. And Overcome Anxiety Like a Hero is a hero’s journey beyond your thinking.
Or listen to the Conscious Fire Culture Podcast
Find his books at Amazon/Thomas M Wurm
Well Connected Twin Cities is connecting you with local health and wellness professionals in your community. Discover what's possible by surfing the directory, taking a class, or attending the next event.
Follow us on instagram https://instagram.com/wellconnectedtwincities
Ep 99 Healing Mind, Body, and Soul for First Responders with Thomas Wurm
Cynthia Shockley: Hello and welcome to the Well Connected Twin Cities podcast. This quarter we are shifting from family care and moving into trauma informed care. This is a field that is rapidly growing as we recognize that trauma is real. Trauma is not just P T S D. It is a wide range. Of experiences that we have as human beings [00:01:00] and there are a lot of providers out there doing work specifically healing trauma.
And I have one of those people with us today. He is not necessarily in the Twin Cities, but he is doing some important work that we saw a lot of application in. How we can address trauma informed care in other areas of the world, and hopefully right here in the Twin Cities as well. So I'd love to welcome Thomas Worm.
Thomas Wurm: Thomas. Hello. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today. I feel so blessed to be here with your audience. Yes,
Cynthia Shockley: and I'm so grateful that we were able to connect the work that you are doing with Mountain Mind Tricks. One of a kind. I just haven't really heard of anything like this, and I think it's because it also stems from a very unique story of yours.
I would love for you to share, first what it is you do and also a bit of your story and what brought you into [00:02:00] this work.
Thomas Wurm: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And, And for me, what I do is I would say alternative therapy and energy work and there's a lot to unpack with that, but really it's looking at.
The way we believe things, the way we feel things, the way we see things around us in our life in a different way, so we can learn to heal from them. Really looking for the lessons in the trauma, really looking for the lessons internally that really gives us empowerment. So turning trauma or negative emotions or these deep heated beliefs into something that's empowering.
It's totally different in a lot of ways from traditional therapy. And so we're gonna go on a ride today for sure. We're gonna go on a journey Yes. Of ideas, which is so beautiful and how this happened. Wow. It's, it is a long story and we'll keep it brief, but really I was with the Forest Service for 15 years as a [00:03:00] wildland firefighter.
And I would say, yeah, 2015 there was a, tragic death near me that was very close. My captain passed away and the grief as it does pulled all of my problems to the surface. And really, I didn't really know what to do besides meditation. You know, As a firefighter I was kind of the tough guy, like I had no idea where to go.
But my mental health just. Getting worse and worse. My physical health started show my body. It was really, I hit rock bottom, lots of drinking, trying to like, just, I tried everything until there was a breaking point, and that's when I found acupuncture and acupuncture really started to turn me around.
I mean, It really, I would say acupuncture literally saved my life. I remember the day I walked into my acupuncturist I was like, I feel like I'm dying. I don't know what to do anymore. So that was the first step. And then continuing the meditation and journaling and breath work and those kinds of things.
But what really made the difference was a technique called mental [00:04:00] emotional release. And that is a technique that uses the unconscious mind to go back to the very first event. When we have traumas in our lives, yes, we're maybe 18 or eight years old, or maybe we're 30 when the trauma happens.
But this goes back to the very first time. And so we're already getting alternative. This could be something past life. It could be something during birth. It could be when you're three years old, it's really wherever the unconscious mind created it. We want to go there and work with this, so it really gets the root cause.
So that's the biggest difference with this technique, is that we really look at the root cause. And from my experie, When that, when I had my first session with mental emotional release, everything changed. My anxiety was gone. This massive fear of death was gone. Like all these things shifted really quickly.
And that's when I knew it was like, I have to do this, I have to do this as a practitioner. This is my calling. It was my purpose. And so I found in Mountain Mind Tricks and I've been giving back to, my brothers and [00:05:00] sisters that are first responders. And it's been an amazing.
Cynthia Shockley: Yeah. There's such a power in turning your own experiences and that journey of healing that you had into something that you can then pay forward and offer to others, and especially those in such. A trauma trenched environment. I'd imagine being a wildfire firefighter. There are a lot of losses and a lot of just fear for your life throughout that
Thomas Wurm: process.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's very it's so different than the city fire, I really wanna honor that because it's very different and it's not it's not so public or published or known about all the struggles. And so it's a beautiful community to be a part of and to give back to.
It's it is. .
Cynthia Shockley: Yeah. Wonderful. And these alternative therapies you mentioned, for you acupuncture was that big opening for [00:06:00] you where it just, it launched launched that next step and the next step and mental emotional release. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Cuz I do see that it's something um, there's that little r next to it. . Yeah. It's official mental and emotional release. Where did you learn this? And what was the training process like for you?
Thomas Wurm: Yeah, absolutely. And actually the little tiny r the copyright is actually very important. It's, it is significant and it comes from let's talk about what it is and then what the training looks like.
It, it comes from the modality of N L P, which nobody really knows what that is. It's a mouthful. It's neurolinguistic programming, right? And so we're looking at the mind, the nervous system. We're also looking at the language. So the language of how we speak to ourselves, how we speak to others, but how that language creates the stories in our mind, how the language [00:07:00] creates.
The labels that eventually create the feelings and beliefs that create the problems, right? So it's really about looking at the language and how your language creates the problem. And it's also, the programming's not the best word, but it's really looking at the. The beliefs, what are the beliefs at the root that's creating the problem?
So it's really the language, the beliefs in our mind. Okay, so that's the modality where it comes from. It's an arm or a branch of hyp hypnotherapy or hypnosis. Mince emotional release is a specific technique from Dr. Matt James. He's a doctor in psychology that certifies all of us. He. I would say that technique was created by his father in timeline therapy, and he adjusted a little bit and now it's mental emotional release.
So what the training looks like is it's. A very intensive the basic training NLP is like a four day kind of event. The next [00:08:00] event for a master practitioner is about two weeks. So it's about 12 hour days in like a seminar setting. And it's really intense. You're going through all the N L P techniques, you're going through all the mental, emotional release, the phobia.
I mean, There's just, you kind of get hammered., it's actually a lot to go through. And so that's the thing is that this is totally different than going through a master's program. I'm not a clinical practitioner by any means, although I work with, my brothers and sisters that have P T S D.
I see that change immediately. I see those things move and actually have great results. And I honor the therapist, those people that have those big degrees and all those the licensing that it's very, I. Sometimes I refer clients to them cause it's, you know what that's not my realm.
So there's definitely a different scope of practice. What I can say is just the phobia or anxieties or depressions are. Actually really easy with this technique. It's so [00:09:00] profound. I've seen so much transformation over and over again that I there's no doubt in my mind that it works.
Like it. It's amazing. It just, it works every time and I love that so much.
Cynthia Shockley: Would you mind sharing maybe a specific success story that. shows and demonstrates the power of mental and emotional release.
Thomas Wurm: Yes, absolutely. And actually I, I have been working with more therapists lately for some reason, and I wanna share one story.
A past client that really, she came to me she heard me on a podcast and she was like, you know, whatever you said like, I was just really, I really wanted to work with you. And I said, great. Let's, Let's get to it. And. She had a lot of self-doubt, a lot of confidence issues. She wasn't seeing a lot of gains with her clients as a therapist.
She wanted to know more about the technique. And so when we got into the session, there was actually some really deep-rooted things with abuse and traumas that we uncovered and dealt [00:10:00] with. Her results were so profound that she said, Thomas, I'm going to the training. I don't I'm like, c B T is great and everything, but I'm doing mental emotional release.
This is, I'm changing my career for this. And That was really powerful for me to see to work with a clinical therapist and say, you know what? Your technique's better than mine. I'm gonna learn how to do it. That was really profound for me. Other stories like my firefighters there's one woman I can think of specifically.
She had quit firefighting cuz she couldn't get out of bed. She was so depressed. She was just so lost in life. And we did a breakthrough session. Within a couple months. She was actually back in fire as a supervisor, so she was leading people now, she was doing really great.
There was major things that happened to her that summer. Of course, every firefighter, right? And she dealt with those perfectly. The next season she actually went to helicopter repelling, so she's repelling out of helicopters now into fires and She told me that was her dream. That was always her dream was to repel.
But she never thought she was strong [00:11:00] enough and now she's doing it. She's doing it. So she's just, she's an amazing repeller. She's doing it. She's out there. So I could go on for a while, but those are some of the stories that are right off the top of.
Cynthia Shockley: incredible. Such huge shifts and being able to work with this tool.
I know you also offer Reiki and you really take that mind, body, soul approach. I wonder if you can speak a little more on why it's important with trauma specifically why it's important to take [00:13:00] all these three bodies into consideration.
Thomas Wurm: Okay. Yeah, this is a beautiful question. I would say one, I started as a practitioner.
I probably had 10 to 15 sessions. And I started to notice when I'm very intuitive, just my nature, I've been, I grew up that way. So in these sessions I started to notice like, wait a minute, there's like a lot of energy happening. Like I don't really understand this. Like I, what is happening? There's all this energy moving and there's a lot of spiritual things happening that I didn't really, I wasn't grasping very well.
I knew I could feel it and see it, and all those kinds of things. And so I I wanted to understand and why this is so important is from a trauma perspective, from an energy perspective, the person that goes through a extremely stressful moment. Or especially the firefighters or military or whatever they're going through, like even a, an abuse, the person from an energetic level, they [00:14:00] actually drop off a piece of themselves in a way.
There's a piece of themselves that's stuck energetically in that time, in that place. And it's just spinning and that's why the thoughts are repeating. The movies are repeating. It's like there's that energy there. And so I started to understand okay, we actually need to reclaim the energy.
We need to actually not just release the mental emotional things, but we need to gather all the energy of the being of the person so they can start healing. And so I advanced my training with Huna, which is also with Dr. Matt James. It's Hawaiian shamanism. It's very close to Reiki, but Reikis not totally, the lineages are completely broken.
There's no manuscript, like I do reiki as well, cause I honor reiki. It's very powerful. Huna is just a little bit more, there's 29 generations that are linked to our school, and so it's very powerful.
So yeah, we do a lot of the energy work. We do a lot of work with the [00:15:00] highest self, in mental emotional release work. We talk about the conscious mind, unconscious and highest. And so we're really, I would say when we clean the unconscious mind we're creating that channel to bring the highest self into our reality.
We're bringing that highest self into our body, or manifestation, like the secret, whatever you want to call it. We start being able to manifest abundance more life, energy, those kinds of things. And of course, some people, we call it God or divine. Jesus, Buddha, whatever we wanna call it, doesn't matter.
That's what's so beautiful is it's your source, your energy, whatever you want to call, and it's really just divine light, right? That we're working with, and it adds the next layer of healing, it adds the next layer. One of the biggest things, I think, from a physiological perspective, to take it down in the.
is that when we release mental emotional things, like very deep traumas, the body is actually gonna react. The body is actually gonna go through a healing [00:16:00] process. It could be a rash, I mean, the body can go through some weird stuff, right? But when we bring in the reiki or the Una work we give the body the energy it needs.
To start healing. And so we actually take that process in a better way. We help the client go through a better healing process because really in that moment, the body is really at a cellular level, is resetting in a lot of ways. We can talk about Depop Chopra's work and the quantum healing, and we have a new body every year.
So if your body isn't healed in one year, what's probably mental, emotional. That's pretty alternative.
Cynthia Shockley: That is very alternative. And yeah, yet, It's something that we see time and time again I've studied shamanism and you know, shamanism is one of those things that has existed in every culture in some format and it's, there's something there.
I just spoke with [00:17:00] someone in a previous podcast episode who was saying, if something spans across generations and across cultures, There's something there, right? There's something there. If it's been here that long across all cultures. Yeah. So it's really interesting to hear about Huna and so I wonder then, are you doing what they call, what I learned are called soul retrievals to bring that energy or that part of that person who's stuck in trauma back home to their present
Thomas Wurm: body?
Yes and so specifically for like P T S D or that's not even a, it's not even a disorder anymore. I think they've changed that really. P t s, right? Post-traumatic stress. Yes. What we do first is actually a fast phobia model, which I know that sounds technical. Basically, we take the movie and we rewind it and fast forward it like over and over again until it's gone.
Like it releases that way, meant emotionally on [00:18:00] the spiritual. Yes. We're gonna do a soul retrieval too. Absolutely. Because it's it really is recapturing and gathering that energy, like you said. Yep. On point. Yeah.
Cynthia Shockley: Amazing. And so you've got, Mental emotional release. You've got Huna and then neurolinguistic, neurolinguistic, pro let me try that again. neurolinguistic programming and Reiki. Do you just work one-on-one with people or is this something you offer in community as well?
Thomas Wurm: Yeah, this is beautiful. So, uh, Yes, I do a lot of one-on-one sessions.
We also have retreats in Mexico. We've been running and expanding retreats into all sorts of different avenues, but really just alternative healing retreats. And so it's yes, community and also. Yeah, the retreats are looking at there's some wilderness programs right now getting built.
[00:19:00] There's some introduction, like breath work, yoga, chiang like meditation kind of retreats. And then the Mexico retreats. We're really working with indigenous culture and, and eros down in Mexico and really just working with remedies, and we have a, a Shama down there that's just a beautiful human being.
So yeah, lots of work in community as. Yeah, beautiful.
Cynthia Shockley: Because there's such a magic in retreats in particular, I feel because you're going somewhere completely different where the environment isn't triggering the typical. Neural pathways that you might be used to when you're at home, at work in these places that are familiar.
And then you're in community with people who can offer different perspectives, who can really corroborate on the healing experience, validate you. And so I just, I love that you do both the retreats and the one-on-one healing.
Thomas Wurm: Yeah. And we [00:20:00] really take the Greek philosophy on this, where in ancient Greece, there.
The best way I can explain, there was a pilgrimage, right? Like the people had to travel really far and go up on the mountain to this place where all the healers were, and then they would stay there for weeks and months, and until they were healed. And that's really what's happening in Mexico is that these people, yes, they have to travel out of their country.
They have to go through all the things to get there in the first place, and they're out of their environment, out of their family, out of their work. All those things are already a little bit shocking, right? In a way. And now we've got the Reiki folks, we've got massage, we've got the herbal remedies, we've got the N L P, the Una.
Like we've got so many practitioners in this beautiful space. And really from a Greek philosophy, we're looking at that Dream Inc. Incubation. We're, we want to do the therapies and the energy work until the person has an experience, like an experience that changes their. And [00:21:00] that's what the Greeks would do.
They would help these people in all these different ways until they had a dream or a vision or something that changed them at like a, at a deep root level. And so that's really the format is it's a group of practitioners working with people and community and it's just a beautiful, I'm so lucky to have the team I have.
Cynthia Shockley: That's amazing. And I actually just got back from a retreat that I was hosting in Mexico and I feel like it can be quite an endeavor even with me just being the sole provider, right? Like we had a couple of key experiences and feedback I did get was it'd be cool for the next one to maybe bring other healers on and just get a taste of other things, and. I wonder, just professionally curious, but also as a consumer curious, what would you say is the typical cost to be able to have multiple providers have the space, have the food, have you know, all of these things? For a retreat. [00:22:00] And how long are your retreats typically?
Thomas Wurm: Yeah, typically we go about six days and that's with travel and those kinds of things.
So it's five day, five day. Getting, doing the retreat. And then really right now, our last retreat which I just got back to maybe four or five days ago It was 4,000. 4,000 with all of our folks. And actually what we do a lot of preparation work. So we spend a couple weeks before retreat.
We do a lot of preparation, we'll do a lot of mental emotional release work and then we have retreat. And then afterwards we really focus on integration and even we do more therapies, more more community setting, of getting back to the retreat group. And there's an online course that comes afterwards.
So it's not just the five days. It is a bit longer than that, but the in-person experience is five to six.
Cynthia Shockley: I love that. That's totally on my vision list. I feel like the pre-work and the post-work to integrate is essential. It's something I haven't gotten my act together on, [00:23:00] but it's on my list and I'm very inspired by what you've created
Thomas Wurm: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. It's, yeah, it's yeah, I feel blessed. I feel blessed in, you know, our next retreat's in September. If people are interested please reach out, and yeah, look forward. Yeah.
Cynthia Shockley: So I know for your clients, you do have a loving heart and a soft spot specifically for people in the field of firefighting.
Is there another demographic that are drawn to your services? Or is it just anyone who's experienced trauma?
Thomas Wurm: Really, I would say of course the firefighters that's where I came from. But that's not my only thing by any means. I love to work with, you know, if they're interested in me, I wanna work with them.
I think the other demographic that seems to be drawn to me is there maybe they're in a work transition or they've changed careers or they're wanting to, or they're. They're just a little lost in life. Like they're looking for that purpose and looking for that spiritual [00:24:00] connection.
You know, I would say the one thing for me, as a one-on-one practitioner is I'm pretty spiritual. I'm gonna wanna talk about Huna mostly. You know what I mean? We're gonna go energy that, that's not always depending on the client, but that's where I want to go. And so people that are. They got their purpose, but they're not quite sure what direction they're going.
It seems to really uh, resonate with them. .
Cynthia Shockley: Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. And I know you also have a couple of meditations that are published on your website as well. Is that right?
Thomas Wurm: Yes. So there's my second book that I wrote Awakened by Heart Fire. I just, a beautiful book and it's. There's fire stories, but then I really look at the spiritual aspects of okay, what did I learn from that experience?
What did I learn from that? Like, you know, For example one of my experiences I had on a fire, we were we were dropped off by the helicopter. We were out there in the middle of the wilderness and the mountains putting these little fires out, [00:25:00] and we lost the g p s. We had no maps. Like, how are we gonna get back to the trail to get picked up?
All those things. And I just as the leader, I like, got really calm and closed my eyes and I actually practiced some shamanism and I put my consciousness in a hawk to understand the topography and look for the trailhead and it worked. And so those kinds of experiences I wanted to share in the book. Part of the book is there, there is a meditation series that goes along with it and it's really beautiful.
It's really just grounding protection, connecting with your heart fire, which I call like your passion, your purpose, but really the in-state is connecting with what I call the infinity fire. We could call it Soar god, whatever, we're really connecting with that light and bringing it into our.
Cynthia Shockley: And you have three books? I am, I'm seeing,
Thomas Wurm: yes. Three books. They're pretty, I would say awaken by heart fire. My second one is much more little more open to other genres. Like [00:26:00] the other two are very firefighter specific and I got one right now, just I writing one right now I'm really excited about.
So yes, that will be more open to every. All
Cynthia Shockley: right, so stay tuned, .
Thomas Wurm: Yes, that's right.
Cynthia Shockley: So I know you do work one-on-one, work on your retreats. Are you also working. Within specific institutions having some kind of contract, let's say with a firefighting facility.
Or is it, people find you individually?
Thomas Wurm: I would say it's more individually and there's some groups I'm part of like speaking engagements and providing training. You know, That would be more of the institutional things that I do once in a while. It's really. For the fire folks and the agencies and all those things.
I'm just, I'm pretty alternative. So I'm just solo, doing my thing. Yeah. It's more the one-on-ones and retreats and, and yeah. Just mm-hmm. doing the [00:27:00] thing. Yeah,
Cynthia Shockley: it reminds me of this analogy that I've actually used a lot and it. It, funny enough, it uses fire as the analogy.
But I always said cuz I was pre-med for a while and I always felt like. , I had this light of just understanding of all these alternative integrative approaches and different ways we can approach healthcare. And I was like, I feel like I'm going out into the dark, windy night with this candle and hoping and praying it doesn't go out, that it'll help someone see in the darkness and.
When I discovered this community of other integrative practitioners, people who believed in what I believed, and it was not necessarily in the medical system, but in the wellness, in the holistic health space, I pivoted. And became an integrative health coach, cuz I was like, oh my gosh. I was over here in the cold holding this candlestick while everyone's over there [00:28:00] enjoying a bonfire.
Thomas Wurm: Yes. Yes. And yes. I feel so grateful now because of the, the Bruce Lipins, the Deepak Chopra's the Dr. Matts, like the quantum physics I mean from a spiritual and therapeutic sense, like the inform. Out there. Especially I think Bruce Lipton and epigenetics like that stuff, if people aren't familiar, the biology of belief will blow your mind.
Mm-hmm. ,, and let me sum it up. The, The summary is that, are you familiar at all with the biology belief? No, but that's going on my list. Oh, Oh, okay. Okay. I'm gonna go in a little bit depth here then. So ,, okay. Bruce Lipton was a professor. And he was a molecular biologist. He taught doctors. Okay. And so he was doing a lot of studies with stem cells in the nineties and he was the first person to really.
He wanted to understand where the brain was in the cell. And so he would do these weird experiments. He'd take out the [00:29:00] nucleus and like the cell would still function. And so he is like, well, it's not that. And so he kept looking for the brain and what he found was actually the membrane or the skin basically of the cell is actually the brain.
We're gonna get technical just for a second. The membrane lets in and out. These neuro peptides and all the hor, all the chemical things. What he found was that when he changed the petri dish solution, that the cell would change and he said, oh, that's different. Let me experiment with this a little bit more.
Let's take this, let's go a little bit faster here to expand. What he discovered was that the environment and the energy, or the vibration or the frequency, so the toxins, the chemicals, and the Petri dish, but also the vibration affected the cell the most, and so he started to expand that into tissues, into organs, and eventually into the body, right?
What we can say is that our energy and our [00:30:00] environment affect ourselves first and foremost. From a quantum level, from a biology level, from a mental, emotional level. I mean, You can see. in every day, right? When we believe something, we see something in our environment. We believe something about ourselves.
Now we're creating emotions. What are emotions? It's literally a cascade of chemicals. are you in joy or are you in fear, it's gonna change your body completely. And so that's really the level that we're working at when we are working with N L P and mental emotional release, work with energy, work with reiki or whoo we're changing the way you interpret your environment and that's the key.
We're changing the interpretation and we're changing the energy, so that's why we. I'll say my colleagues that are medical doctors see some pretty miraculous healings from this stuff. There's things I won't work with cause I'm not a doctor. But just know that there's a lot, there's some really big tools here, and it's, [00:31:00] and it really comes down to the environment energy.
Yeah. And so the Bruce Lipton's, the Greg Braden's, the Dr. Joda spin does these people are literally changing the world right now. And we're getting to witness it at a, in a wellness sense, you know?
Cynthia Shockley: that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that, I love what you said, that what you're doing is you're changing how people interpret and perceive their environment, and that is changing the chemical makeup that all their cells are bathed in.
Yeah. So that makes so much sense. And I'll say even as an integrative health coach, some of the most powerful coaching sessions I'll have is when it is a mindset shift. Mm-hmm. When it's not specifically a behavior or an action that's changing, it's how someone's experiencing their reality. And able to have more peace and calm in that environment.
Yeah. Like [00:32:00] it's not that my mom is calling me to harass me and judge me and criticize me. My mom's calling me because she loves me, because she cares for me. And that's how she expresses her care. Mm-hmm. .. And now my whole nervous system can. Even if my mom is saying some things to me on the phone, that might not be pleasant to hear, but I, I don't take it personally, you know?
Thomas Wurm: Yeah,
yeah. And I think, you know, just to, I guess I wanna go a little bit deeper into something for me personally was uh, I, I, I don't know the term I don't really like labels, but if I had to label myself a long time ago, would be orthorexic, where it's like you're obsessed with supplements, you're obsessed with working out, you're obsessed with health, right?
To the point where I was having health problems, right? Like when I told your original story, like I was in that stage of I was taking all the right supplements, doing all the right things, nothing was working. . But once I shifted my mind, the supplements started working. , the acupuncture started working, like the [00:33:00] things started.
So we can do all the right things, but if we're not doing it in the mind, at the mental level or at the spiritual level, sometimes, like it's not gonna do much. And we really have to look at the spiritual, mental, emotional and physical bodies, and each aspect is just as important in, in, in what I.
Cynthia Shockley: Mic drop. It's . So
Thomas Wurm: true. .
Cynthia Shockley: Uh, well, Thomas, I wonder, do you only work with people in person? Do you work with people virtually? If anyone from the Twin Cities wanted to connect with.
Thomas Wurm: Yeah, I do. Of course I work in person and I'm always willing to travel, but really I do actually, I would say most of my work virtually. So most things are virtual. Of course the retreats are in person, but yeah, virtually is always a great way to go. Perfect.
Cynthia Shockley: All the information to contact Thomas to learn more about his business and what he offers will be in the show notes along with information on his retreats.
[00:34:00] You know, there's been so much goodness in this conversation, so many nuggets of wisdom. If you were to wish that a listener could walk away from this conversation with one take away, what would that be?
Thomas Wurm: I think really to. Live from your heart and to live in love with yourself, but also the moment to be in love with yourself and be in love with the moment, and be in love with the people around you.
And really it comes down to being in aloha. Being in that state of consciousness that's in awe, that's in joy, that's in gratitude, that's in appreciation. That's what life is about and embrace. Actually embracing the things that challenge us, embracing the things that create the quote unquote suffering, but it's really about how do we grow to become more love?
That's what I would love for them to take, is that it's really, at the end of the day, [00:35:00] it's about loving ourselves and loving each other and being in love with this. Hmm.
Cynthia Shockley: Yes. Beautiful. Well, I so enjoyed this conversation and I so appreciate everything that you are, everything that you're doing, and I am, I'm grateful.
So thank you so much, Thomas, for your time and energy
Thomas Wurm: today. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here with your audience. It's a pleasure to get to know you on a deeper level and just thank you so much.